Feb 18 2010

A Civil Discourse in Dog

Posted by Kevin Myers at 3:35 PM
9 comments
- Categories: Adoption | Advocacy | Anti Cesar Milan | Cesar Millan | Dogs | Health | Training

Many people will tell you that the triumvirate of religion, politics, and sports, are subjects to be considered off limits if one wishes to avoid arguments and keep friends. I would also add the subject of dogs to that list.

Within the world of dogs, subjects like training methods, feeding, vaccinations, collars, spaying & neutering, kill vs. no kill, purebred vs. adoption, ad infinitum; seem to polarize people and really brings out our stark difference of opinions.

When I first started Dog Lovers Digest I devoted a great deal of thought to whether I should blog about my opinions or not, and also if I should allow others to comment on them. I wanted to share with others, my feelings and opinions about dogs and I wanted others to be able to share similar stories and thoughts. However, I also feel that posting my opinions on a blog available to the world also carries a responsibility. To me a public proclamation of opinion is an open invitation to critique of that opinion. Let me say here that this statement does not apply to those blogs and websites that do not allow comments on their articles. Not allowing comment on articles and blog posts is a reasonable position to take; based on the fact that divergent opinions are able to create their own sites as well. However, allowing the public in general to comment on a post carries the responsibility of posting those opinions you don’t agree with. Of course moderation of those comments is a must because there are some that will abuse the forum. But as long as people are respectful, I believe that it is my duty to allow comment from all points of view.

Another issue for me is the fact that I consider it my responsibility to defend my opinions. When people post divergent viewpoints, I need to make sure that I am ready to answer questions that they may pose to me. I also need to make sure that even when I vehemently disagree with them, I do it in a civil manner. This can be very time consuming and at some point you have to agree to disagree– but I will allow a few rounds of back and forth to make sure that everyone gets an equal say.

A recent post of mine “Does The Milgram Experiment Explain Cesar Milan’s Influence" has really brought these points home to me. The article has been widely distributed on internet and has drawn comments on many different sites including Twitter, Facebook, and my own. One of the things that have struck me is how uncivil the discourse on subjects like this can be. It has put me in mind of the town hall meetings about healthcare reform that were all over the news channels here in the states this past year. Each side shouting longer and louder at the other trying to drown out anything they did not agree with. What does this accomplish? I think most people would agree (there goes that opinion thing again) that in order to change someone’s mind you need to teach not preach. Coming up with clever insults and deriding your opponents may win you points when you’re preaching to the choir– but it’s not likely to convert someone who is sitting on the fence or who is in the other camp.

If we want to introduce others to our way of thinking, we need to do it in a thoughtful and respectful manner; and we must also listen to other points of view before we dismiss them. I am not always successful in this endeavor and I admit that sometimes I can get caught up in the crowd as well. But I promise to become more successful at it. Remember that if we want people to listen to us, we need to return the courtesy.

As always we welcome your thoughts and opinions. Let's learn from each other.

Cheers

Kevin, Jackie, Gavin, Annie, Tosha

Comments

Nicole S. Silvers

Nicole S. Silvers wrote on 02/18/10 3:54 PM

An excellent article! You model the behavior you'd like others to adopt. Very convincing.
wvterry

wvterry wrote on 02/18/10 4:21 PM

Good one Kevin. I agree that to change someones opinion you have to have something to offer them. It is hard to do this if one does not listen or responds in negative ways. Coming from a position of empathy allows us to understand why people believe what they do and to do so from a place of understanding not judgement.
Mary E Haight

Mary E Haight wrote on 02/18/10 4:54 PM

I could not agree more. I was just telling Steve Dale how great I thought it was that American Humane, where he is a board member, and Cesar Millan will be conducting a symposium on Dog Training.

I love this kind of face-to-face, and think it's absolutely a model for how all groups with a gripe can hold open discussions in a civil forum. I should hope we would all be tired of the shouting model by now.
Debbie Jacobs

Debbie Jacobs wrote on 02/18/10 5:03 PM

Civil discourse is possible when participants are not only civil but have the ability to accurately explain and defend their position or point of view. Would be nice to see more of both whether we're talking about dogs, politics, religion or the value of Bruce Willis movies.
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I couldn't agree with you more Debbie. Especially about the Bruce Willis movies.

Kevin
Rod@GoPetFriendly

Rod@GoPetFriendly wrote on 02/18/10 8:59 PM

I think to shake things up ... Side A should argue for Side B and vice versa. What better way to understand the strengths and weaknesses of an opponent.
Kim

Kim wrote on 02/18/10 9:14 PM

Oh, how many times I have tried to get this point across to people.
Nothing is ever learned through shouting, name calling or any form of negativity. People will shut down every time. I know I will, so why would I expect anyone else not to.
If you begin insulting what someone else believes in or finds to be important in some way, they tend to cling to it even tighter.
Great article. Thanks for posting it.
PrettyPittieD

PrettyPittieD wrote on 02/20/10 10:21 PM

There is nothing better than reading civilized debate. It's very rare. Debate usually means shouting match, and everyone still remains ignorant of the other's point of view.

Kevin, I have noticed, and maybe unintentionally, your blogs/comments do come across as only on sided. I think more responsibility needs to fall on the owners and how they choose to train their dog. What we see quite often on Cesar's show are extreme cases that require an extreme method. When he has more mild cases, he takes a more mild approach and has used positive reinforcement and treats to change the dogs behavior, but anti-Cesar folks never talk about those episodes. For example, he stopped a dog from charging the door and barking at another dog with cheese. That's all it took, was cheese. And yes, there are more episodes like that.

Yes, I am a Cesar fan, but I certainly don't think my pit bull needs an alpha roll or a prong collar or any harsh methods. She's treat and love motivated :). I have learned so much from Cesar, and maybe I'm one of the few that actually READS the disclaimer. I don't attempt his more forceful methods on my pooch because it doesn't require it. I use common sense, which we all know isn't so common.

I'm certainly not saying that the man is perfect or that his word is God, but I don't think he is the HORRIBLE man that all anti-Cesar folks want to make him out to be. I feel the same way when folks talk about pit bulls and how there should be a law against them and that they shouldn't exist as a breed. A lot of these folks have never even met a pit bull!

I guess what I'd like to know Kevin is whether or not you have anything positive to say about the man. The reason I ask is because so many people who preach about positive reinforcement quite frankly seem to have the most HATE in their responses about Cesar. Your comments are an exception.

Well, whatever you may think of Cesar, there is no doubt that his sidekick Daddy was a great ambassador for the pit bull breed. May he rest in peace!!!

Thank you again for the civilized debate and allowing me to join in.

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PrettyPitieD

Thank you for participating in the discussion. I have seen Cesar use some positive methods in his show and I do think his mantra of exercise, discipline, and affection are in the ballpark but a bit mislabeled. I would label them engagement (mind and body), direction (show them what to do), and affection. I am concerned that many people do blow by those warning labels you see on the show and the results can be unfortunate for both people and dogs. I will say that Cesar has brought a hightend awareness about dog training. I only wish that people would open their minds to alternatives to Cesars way.

As for Daddy he was a sweetie. A real positive role model for pitties. I think that Breed Specific Legislation is 100% wrong and does not address the real problem-- high risk owners. I will keep a good thought for Cesar and Daddy today. I know how hard that loss can be.

Kevin
Karen Frieseke

Karen Frieseke wrote on 02/21/10 12:38 AM

Good post! I'm pretty sure that you've visited my blog, so you know that I'm not afraid to call BS when I see it. I really love the discussion aspect of blogs and the discourse that it can bring. I always welcome ANY comments wether I agree with it or not. It's good to hear from both sides.
PrettyPittieD

PrettyPittieD wrote on 02/21/10 10:54 AM

Kevin,

I completely agree with you...Engagement, Direction & Affection are a much better description!

Thanks for the reply.

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